If some of Yume’s HTML designer go to #WebcampSaigon and attend @mintran’s presentation, they might know their Yume.vn’s HTML structure is suck.
The screenshot bellow is Yume.vn’s screenshot: As you can see, its contents didn’t show up in almost boxes when Firefox’s NoScript turning on:
The screenshot bellow is what it should be:
So, what is my point? My point is the HTML designers of Yume.vn didn’t know they should write an unobstructed HTML structure first, before think about how the website with scripts look like. This is the ugly HTML that @mintran talked about in his session named “Writing Beautiful HTML“. And who wrote these ugly HTML must know they have a whole things to learn to avoid this kind of mistake, not the techniques that write the HTML, but the concept that builds the web.
My rant!
I know it’s just a rant, but does anyone actually surf with scripting turned off these days? The only reason anyone ever turns off scripting is probably to test how sites look with scripting turned off
(either that or to beat some sites that use scripting to enable/disable certain features).
Duc,
I am sorry but you make me rofl. It’s hard to explain for someone ignore the standard of Web Standards like you. Thanks for give me a reason to laugh.
Ban.
Hi Duc,
I’m one of guys who is surfing without scripts. And most of dudes from my team do the same thing.
We all are into great contents, yeah. But flashy stuffs which cause a big slow on our browsers? HELL NO.
You guys are all: I’m surfing this way, I’m turning script off, blah blah blah.
Let’s start with the Core users of Yume, shall we?
Hi An Binh,
This is just a technical quick-review man.
Ban.
Didn’t attend WebcamSaigon (will do after go back to VN later this year), but from a quick look from @minhtran’s presentation, I think his topic is more about “code accessability & structure”. This is more about front-end accessability problem and not about “beautiful HTML”.
I haven’t got chance to look at the code behind at this moment, but my point is that while I’m not keen on using JS to load content that way (that is, to load different parts of the webpage dynamically the first time user enter the site), I don’t think it is really bad either. Certainly, the designers (or coders) can improve the accessability of the site by notify/block users without Javascript enabled (i.e using noscript tag).
@Duc: You are typical Vietnamese web-designer. I love the way you think!
@Ban: =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))
Le Chi Nguyen: except I am not a web designer, nor am I even in vietnam. I write software for a living and keep up with web stuff when I can. I know plenty about web standards, but I just find it funny when so called web designers rant about their narrow minded view of web design.
Ban: After you’re done rofl, you can go ahead and fix your invalid html before you go point out other people’s faults: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ducban.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654
You can’t even handle overflow correctly, and you’re picking on other people’s html? Now you’re starting to make me rofl.
Last comment. Safari 4 100% acid3 compliant. Suck it.
http://bayimg.com/EaBgOAACc
Hi Duc,
You are not surprise me to say that. This morning, I already told @mintran that maybe Validators is your checking tools. Thanks for your confirmation. You are too predictable man.
All I have to tell you is Validators are not the tool to check how unobstructed are your HTML structure, they are just the tools to check your syntax are correct or not. I can’t tell your more, because as what I told you before, it’s hard to explain for someone ignore the standard of Web Standards like you. As you said to Le Chi Nguyen, you know about Web Standards, I have a question for you: How come a web developer who knows about Web Standard using Validators to check some website HTML structure are correct or not, without reading its HTML’s structure manually.
As my mention above, my website is failed from HTML syntax validation. I know it man, I have my reasons to do that. But as you blame my HTML is bad base on your Validator results, I must agree with you and I promise you I will fix it in my next version. But before I have time to rebuild my website, I think I have the right to announce people to avoid my mistake. What was wrong with this?
Anyway, I know I shouldn’t answer you, my commentator, in this aggressive way. So if you understand what I said before, I hope you accept my apology about my honesty. Thanks for comment here and I long to see your next comments on my future articles.
Ban.
@Duc: Ok, my mistake. You are not web designer. So, I’ll change my last comment to “You are typical Vietnamese even though you are working overseas”. Please try to use your tofu brain to think before saying. I didn’t say you are in Vietnam. Through the way you think, I’m sure wherever you are, you are still the typical one, LOL
And remember one thing (I hope it is not too difficult for you): Not-in-Vietnam doesn’t mean you are not Vietnamese, working overseas doesn’t mean you know how to think.
P/S: Your English and thinking are exactly the same.
Nguyen: never said I wasn’t vietnamese. And apparently you seem to think a viet designer making sites for the vietnam market and a viet designer making sites for an overseas market has the same mentality and thought process? Great job. You just confirmed your own stupidity. I’ll stop feeding the trolls now.
Ban: No problem, I have been a long time reader of your RSS feed in google reader and enjoy most of your posts (except this one
) Sorry to cause trouble on this post.
@Duc: Oh please, for God sake, just shut your fuck up. You show me you are REALLY a typical one =)) =)).
@Le Chi Nguyen: Be cool! This is my a technical review article, not a debate about some kinds of people that make me sick.
Now here is the check list for you before publish a site:
Now look into the hell of code they created. Just for the simple header, I have no word to say. They just got the job done, but not in the practical way.
Hello Ban.
What do you think about Content model in strict.dtd.
I guest it’s mean about HTML structure.
@Nhan Co: Tell me about it.
Hi Brother !
You can see it in the top of your HTML source link to dtd. Or this http://24ways.org/2005/transitional-vs-strict-markup.
Hope you know what i mean. You know my english is bad to explain it hehe.
Ha ha ha,
Thank you for the post and taking Yume as an example. In fact I was there in the process of making it as an Online Marketing Executive.
I found this blog interesting because the problem you mentioned of Yume homepage was exactly in my SEO requirements documents submitted to VON’s WPE and SED last November.
But that’s not a disaster compared to the photo.timnhanh.com pages, especially in the members’ profile.
I mean I required, discussed and made presentation a lot. Little was followed and solved. You used to be there for a while before me, so I think you can guess why.
It was interesting that I did see a standard for coding in the SED (i do appreciate that at least they have standard), but later I felt it was made by the ex-workers and it appeared that nobody still used or cared to implement, update it.
So my opinion is: bad management, not stupid.